Sheriffs' group opposes guns for pot smokers

By Brad Cain, Associated Press Writer
Thursday, November 05, 2009 | 43 comment(s)

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SALEM — The right of Oregonians to use marijuana for medical reasons and also to obtain concealed handgun permits is being challenged by local sheriffs who say federal law prevents those people from packing heat.

Advocates for the state’s medical marijuana law countered Wednesday in the Oregon Court of Appeals that the sheriffs simply don’t like the program and are looking for ways to undermine it.

Both sides now are looking to the courts to say definitively whether there’s anything to prevent Oregon from issuing the concealed handgun permits to users of medicinal pot.

The head of the national marijuana advocacy group NORML said he’s not aware of the issue being raised in the 13 other states that allow medicinal use of pot.

“It’s kind of unique to Oregon that a couple of sheriffs there seem to want to defer to federal law when they really ought to be looking at enforcing state laws,” Allen St. Pierre, NORML’s executive director, said in an interview from Washington, D.C.

He also noted that the Obama administration has signaled that federal prosecutors will not go after people in those states who use medical marijuana legally.

“The administration is going to defer to local and state governments on these issues,” he said.

Sheriffs from Washington and Jackson counties say, though, that they want clarification from the court on whether federal gun laws prohibiting illegal drug users from possessing handguns applies to people who have permits to use marijuana for medical reasons. Marijuana is still classified                   as a controlled substance under federal law, they said.

Lower courts had twice ordered the two sheriffs to give weapons permits to people who had lost them because they are medical marijuana users, and both appealed those rulings.

Attorney Elmer Dickens, representing Washington County Sheriff Rob Gordon, said the sheriff thinks he’s in an untenable position.

“We don’t think it’s appropriate for the sheriff to be issuing a license to carry something that the federal government has said they are not even entitled to possess,” Dickens said in court arguments.

A Portland lawyer for the advocates argued in court Wednesday that federal law doesn’t trump Oregon’s concealed handgun permit law.

Medical marijuana users who meet all other criteria cannot be deprived of the right to a concealed handgun permit, said Leland Berger, who helped write Oregon’s medical marijuana law.

“What this is about is that the sheriffs don’t like the medical marijuana law. Twelve years after it was approved by voters, the sheriffs want to discriminate against patients,” he said.

Steven Schwerdt said he had a concealed handgun permit for six years before the Washington county sheriff’s office revoked it when he became a medical marijuana user.

“I’m no criminal; I’m just a guy who can’t physically run away from dangerous situations,” said Schwerdt, who uses medical marijuana to relieve the symptoms of severe arthritis and gout.

Schwerdt got his gun permit back in May 2008 when a lower court judge overruled the sheriff’s office on grounds that there was no legitimate reason to deny him one.
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orecoast007 wrote on Nov 15, 2009 2:39 PM:

CPM, If those card holders really want a gun they can go out and buy a pickup truck with a gun rack in it. This way the local law enforcement could at least see their guns...

Mellowgma wrote on Nov 13, 2009 3:50 PM:

So it sounds like some people think it is safe for a drunk with a gun. That is crazy and very scary.

CPM wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:03 PM:

You have no right to ask someone if they're on medical marijuana, it's covered under doctor patient confidentiality so I think it's a moot point.

pril wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:31 AM:

hey mr pickering, it does not appear that many non-intoxicated persons can make competent decisions, either. I'm talking about the ones we vote for, at every level.

skywatcher wrote on Nov 11, 2009 5:30 PM:

What other laws doesn't the Sheriff's association agree with? Will they be logging license plate numbers in front of liquor stores and supermarkets and revoking the permits and licenses of people that purchase alcohol because they think that repealing prohibition was not good legislation? Stick with enforcing the laws, not legislating from the patrol car.

dan milburn wrote on Nov 10, 2009 9:15 AM:

I see now that NORML, the National Organization for reforming marijuan laws is pushing for legislation to prevent Sheriffs from packing guns. Siting thousands of times where these guns have been pointed at or shot at people who hadn't actually broken any laws. It seems rediculous that your constitutionsl rights can prevent them from asking you questions without an attorney present - but they can point a gun in your face or shoot you if you are a suspect. A Bill will be going to the Oregon Legislature as soon as it can be drafted and spell checked.

NoGod wrote on Nov 9, 2009 4:12 PM:

If pot is so bad then why are 60 percent of the crimes committed alcohol related?

geez wrote on Nov 9, 2009 2:46 PM:

Unfortunately America is full of hypocrites. They suck down chemicals in their food and drink, and never think twice of the harm it does to their brains neurons.

These "decision-makers" also drink the fluoridated water, and lots of them take mind/body altering prescription drugs, and many more watch LOTS of brain altering TV. They don’t call it programming for nothing.

If you’re a law abiding American, and have no criminal record, then there is no way a group of people with discriminating ideas can absolve your right to bear arms. It’s illegal and unconstitutional.

Are these folks so pure in body and mind that they should be the ones to decide who can defend themselves with a gun or not? Absolutely not, that is why the Constitution and Bill of Rights were created in the first place!

amadeus wrote on Nov 9, 2009 10:54 AM:

dan, that was kinda my point, but it is not practical to enforce.

Eastsider wrote on Nov 9, 2009 10:14 AM:

What nonsense! A pot smoker would simply lie when they applied for a permit the same way they lie when they fill out the Federal gun buyer's form. You can drive around with a 12 guage in your pick up's gun rack and save yourself the trouble.
The article isn't about guns or pot, but a handful of publicity-seeking idiot sheriffs.

orecoast007 wrote on Nov 8, 2009 7:32 PM:

KIKILONGBEAN, I agree with you medical marijauna card holders "SHOULD NOT" be allowed to drive...Oh Wait! If that happened the local cab company would just raise the rates!!

NoGod wrote on Nov 8, 2009 2:52 PM:

Yes, because an internet poll on a local podunk newspaper website should dictate policy for everyone.

Marijuana deaths=0 Potheads don't go out and kill or hurt anyone. They do what I do they cook awesome food and listen to good music all while smiling and having a good time. Maybe a few of you should actually go out and smoke pot it could do you some good.

Marijuana is a plant it has been around and evolved with our species since before we walked upright.

dan milburn wrote on Nov 8, 2009 11:14 AM:

Amadeus,
Actually you can lose a Pell grant for getting popped for drugs as well as Housing Assistance from HUD.
This whole thing has me wondering what the Sheriff's Association has been smoking to come up with this nonsense. If they have enough time and money to want to branch out their departments into a legislative branch then maybe they have too much of both on their hands! You could sit in a room full of well meaning educated people for ever and I'll venture a guess that you would never get them to agree whether Pot is a drug or not. If this was any other organization BUT the Sheriff's I would catch a glimpse and move on. Let's explore their AGENDA and figure out what they are REALLY up to.

orecoast007 wrote on Nov 7, 2009 5:59 PM:

59% of people polled say medical marijuana card holders "SHOULD NOT" be allowed concealed weapons permit... 41% of people polled say medical marijauna card holders "SHOULD" be allowed concealed weapons permit.... We should have a statewide poll... I say "NO" to these potheads...

Shallow Al wrote on Nov 7, 2009 10:12 AM:

Nothing better after a long day at work than getting the Jack Daniel's out and playing with loaded guns!

Reminds me of home!

I really don't see the difference if I get stoned or drunk.

It's my right.

Isn't it?

Huh? wrote on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM:

OXYGEN is a drug that requires a perscription. Be careful how you use the term "drug"

Leigh wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:07 AM:

I hate guns personally, and I don't smoke pot, but I would like to know how many gun crimes are committed by people under the influence of marijuana. I'll bet it's a small number. How about banning guns for meth and heroine users.

The Brutal Truth wrote on Nov 6, 2009 9:32 AM:

KIKI,

Oh, I get it, the pill-poppers are responsible enough to follow the warning sticker on their bottle of dope.

Thanks for clearing that up!

CB Lifer wrote on Nov 6, 2009 9:17 AM:

Actually, a different perspective. It's a jobs opportunity! They will need to hire people to drug test! Wait, everyone applying for a gun permit should be tested, prescription drug users, alcoholics, etc. etc. I am for guns, NOT gun control. No matter how much you try to control it, pretty soon, only the "bad guys" will have them. Quit trying to dictate our lives to extreme degrees, no wonder no one has any common sense anymore, they just blindly follow our "leaders".. Baaaa

coquillian wrote on Nov 6, 2009 8:45 AM:

Personally, I really don't care how people abuse themselves as long as they keep it to THEMSELVES. Really, most the pot smokers do. Its the drinkers I am afraid of.

Cmdr wrote on Nov 6, 2009 8:25 AM:

I wonder where the NRA stands?
I think their general position is EVERYONE should have the right to carry a gun anyplace any time.
Any less is an unacceptable government intrusion on our rights as they interpret our constitution.

kikilongbean wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:59 AM:

Brutal Truth ... that's why the prescription bottle says not to operate machinery .... last time I looked a motorized vehicle (or sometimes even a non-motorized vehicle) is considered a machine ....

The Brutal Truth wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:52 AM:

REEFER MADNESS!!! REEFER MADNESS!!!

I'm afraid somebody will go crazy on THE POT and start shooting!!!!

mindtwisted wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:16 AM:

First of all, everyone knows that guns combined with alcohol are what leads to problems, so maybe the sheriff's department should address that issue first. Of course, they're all drunks, so that would mean their guns would be taken away too.

Secondly, what exactly is the sheriff's department trying to prevent? Are they afraid that pot heads might buy their gun a sandwich or invite their gun to a drum circle? Marijuana smokers are proven not to be violent, so what purpose does it serve to prevent them from owning guns? Should they not be allowed to protect themselves too?

Citizen2 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:26 PM:

The Federal Government classified Marijuana as a clss 1 narcotic. I feel this was done to demonize Marijuana to silence disidents. This mild drug is classified medically as a euphoric. The illegal sale of marijuana grown in Oregon is several Billion dollars, why not regulate the growers and tax this money just like booze which has killed 10s of Thousands of people. Pot has killed none unless they were robbed or shot by the Police.

dan milburn wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:44 PM:

What about prescription drugs? Vicotin, medical heroine, methadone, prozac etc. Save the tax payers money and go do your sheriff jobs. If you want t o spend money on this nonsense then prepare to do so out of YOUR budget!
This is so lame and stupid that if they ever call me for another donation to their "sheriff's association", that I'll remind them I'm not donating so they can persue these kind of issues with the money!

orecoast007 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:13 PM:

Let's hope Mr. Pickering "DOES NOT" get elected to the BOC, just read his post on this article... Please vote for Nikki Whitty.....

orecoast007 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 4:22 PM:

I don't think these medical marijuana users should be allowed to carry a concealed weapons permit... They "SHOULD NOT" be allowed to have weapons of "ANY" kind and if they are caught there medical card should be revoked... I would rather deal with the pain, than put that garbage in my lungs... I do support the right to bear firearms, but these potheads should not have the same right!!!

CB Lifer wrote on Nov 5, 2009 4:03 PM:

It amazes me how brutal some people can be on here if you don't agree with their statements. NOGOD, I disagree about no one dying from Marajuana, my son did. And no, there weren't any other drugs involved, just pot. So yep, I'm against it. Tell me how stupid I am, I don't care. I've seen how pot users act, I really don't want to drive on the road next to them either, but that would take about 75% of drivers off the road if they drug tested all of you.

Steve Pickering wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:19 PM:

JustMe. I only told you what the law is. How it is enforced is not something I have control over. I suppose the Election Department could refuse to send ballots to those who are convicted or have Medical Cards.

OK, let’s see a show of hands. How many of those who think it is ok to have a CCW are also Pot Smokers or some other substance abuser.

How many of those posting here are also Pot Smokers or some other substance abuser.


I thought so.

rianza wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:13 PM:

It's been a long time since I indulged, but I succinctly remember lots of milk and cookies, PB&J sandwiches and lots of good music.

But jumping up and screaming "let me introduce you to my little friend" would have been as alien as...well... no Chips A'Hoy.

Just Me wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:05 PM:

To Mr. Pickering: I am sorry to tell you but, as far as the voting goes, if they tested everyone that went into the voting booths for being under the influence of marijuana, I would venture to guess that about maybe an eighth or more voters would not pass! So, with that being said, how do you suggest the voting system would actually know who is a drug user and who is not? I take narcotics for a severe back problem, should I not be able to vote either, or does that "cloud my senses" too much? They are legally prescribed to me by my doctor, as is the medicinal marijuana. It is MY right to vote, even though I am a "drug user" as you put it! You don't even get it!

mouse17 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 2:04 PM:

I think the sheriff's office should concentrate on stopping young adults from buying Oxycontin from elderly and smoking it off tin foil!!!!! I hear it's the thing to do now days. It's sad, these young adults don't have a clue to what this is doing to their lungs. It Hardens them!!! read about it sometime. Some how this needs to be stopped!!

rambo wrote on Nov 5, 2009 1:03 PM:

Lets see here.. seven out of nine comments are about the same..

AND 2 IDIOTS.

Mr E wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:49 PM:

Wow, learn something new every day. Apparently, one cannot vote if they're under the influence. Thank you for that, Steve!

*note: the sarcasm is pretty thick*

Mr E wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:48 PM:

That's funny, I was just thinking about how much I oppose guns in the hands of POLICE OFFICERS. They're far more dangerous and quick-triggered than the potheads out there.

NoGod wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:25 PM:

Kiki nobody has died due to Marijuana EVER.Alcohol and Tobacco =100,000+ a year.

"I don't think people who drink alcohol should be allowed to have a license" sounds pretty stupid huh?

Just An Observer wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:04 PM:

More freedom-hating people out there? Why am I not surprised? What's the problem with having guns and weed both being legal?


Now we have more taxpayer money going to lawyers and court time wasted over wrangling over federal-state legal gray areas thanks to these sheriffs. Just another bad cop-no donut story to go with all the others that have involved state of Oregon sheriffs. The sheriff is not charged with enforcing Federal law, his primary duty is to the state and the county. If the Feds are not going after medpot users, why should the sheriffs stick their nose into the situation? Their actions will cost taxpayer money better spent on real law enforcement problems and shows these guys are out to trample on constitutional freedoms that they swore to uphold!

Holly wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:02 PM:

How about just denying ANYONE taking prescription drugs a conceal/carry? That's the slippery slope the court has to consider.

The Brutal Truth wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:54 AM:

This is laughable at best. I'm so tired of the antiquated "REEFER MADNESS!" mentality.

Folks who have been prescribed pain killers by their doctors are still allowed to own firearms, why should it be any different for medical marijuana users?

And KIKI, your argument doesn't hold water for the same reason. By your reasoning, shouldn't folks who have been presribed pain killers by their doctors also lose their drivers license? After all, they could get all doped up on pills and get behind the wheel, right?

Steve Pickering wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:51 AM:

Touchy subject, but I have never been known for shying away from controversy. As a Pro Gun Conservative, I adamantly support the right to carry, but……..

The prohibition against allowing known drug users to carry is a good law. By getting a medical marijuana card you are admitting to drug use of a narcotic on the federal illegal list. I feel the same way about voting. The law is written to restrict drunks from voting (remember when bars were closed on election day?), because an intoxicated individual can not make competent decisions. The same laws prohibit drug users from voting for the same reason. In Oregon it may be illegal to send a ballot to a medical marijuana user and it is always illegal for a drug user to attempt to vote.

amadeus wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:49 AM:

and let's take away their subsidized housing as well, as THAT is a federal program. Oh, and take away their PELL grants and other federal financial aid, OH, OH , OH, let's take away their medicare and medicaid and social security because THOSE are federal programs...
Yes, because we agree with the federal law and its sanctions, lets ignore the state laws and all on the local level, because after all you LUNATICS, the FEDERAL government knows best RIGHT? RIGHT?

kikilongbean wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:41 AM:

I don't think they should have driver's licenses either. They would be driving under the influence .... I sat on a jury awhile back and the person had been smoking pot and was driving. He was convicted for driving under the influence. So, now is it okay to be driving under the influence? Go figure.


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